Selling Fake IDs and the Law

[JohnsIDs]

So I've been selling G0Ds IDs for a while now, sold to around 80 people so far.

I've been giving people £5 each when they give me a new customer who buys, which seems to be working nicely. Recently however, my friend had the idea of emailing (from proton-mail, known to be very secure and encrypted etc., used by the majority of sellers on the dark web) his whole school, to ask everyone to add a snapchat/wickr to buy.

What are your guys thoughts on this? Until now, I haven't been at all worried as I am careful in protecting my identity from my school and other people, but this is mostly because I know my school has a reputation of giving suspensions etc and very rarely reporting student to the police (even with someone coke dealing), so I wasn't too worried. (Suspension is calm as my parents know about me selling)

I have now left school (Love IB ) and now my only concern is that the school would do their best to report this to the police etc.

I have seen mixed things, but after reading every document I could find as well as searching on here, the law on fake IDs only ever seems to prohibit either the use of a fake ID, or the possession with intent to use. With each sale which people submit online, they have signed a disclaimer where I state these are for novelty uses only and I don't condone the use of them for illegal activities.

Am I all good as far as the law goes? I am 18 now and so have gotten rid of mine, and it is clear that I do not possess with intent for me to use as all of them will not be mine, and with my disclaimer I state I do not possess these with intent for others to use illegally.

If not, could I structure my sales as an 'ordering service,' so people pay me to order on their behalf, and I am therefore not selling fake IDs or making them.

Cheers for the help guys! Just made a new account on here but have been active since the reddit went down :'(

[Runin28]

Handling fake IDs is both similar but also a bit different to handling drugs. The charges that can be imposed for involvement in the supply or distribution can be imposed regardless of if you actually touch the IDs - if they want to get you, they'll get you. One way is circumstantial evidence, which can imply that you may have touched IDs in the past (you don't have to be caught in possession to be charged with possession if you can get your head round that one) so an "ordering service" won't protect you much.

Our country does a pretty good job of making laws - regardless of if you find a legal 'loophole', you're still going to have to argue it to a judge which probably won't end in your favour. The only way you can fully protect yourself legally is to stop, it'll only take one little slip up from an aggravated customer to land you in serious trouble, it's a risk we take. Your best bet is to make it as difficult as possible for police to find any evidence to prosecute with - it doesn't provide you any legal immunity, but does make a prosecution against you less likely - however there may be evidence from the past floating around that could still be used against you.

If you haven't already, don't email an entire school - this will definitely be noticed by teachers and get them very angry - it's just not worth the risk.

PS: I obviously have no legal qualifications, please do not take anything from this as legal advice - this is just how I see the situation from the experiences that I have had.

[Runin28]

ProtonMail and Wickr are both solid services and I would be confident nothing would ever be traced back to you if you used them for sales/advertising, no matter the scale of LE involvement. Snapchat on the other hand you should avoid at all costs, especially if you planned a large scale marketing campaign. For some strange reason people think Snapchat is completely safe and "anonymous" because your messages expire - it's not.

As for the whole 'novelty' argument - it is non existent unless you are selling completely legal cards and it's clear that the products of IDGod and FakeIDUK are not. Not long ago someone posted on here about their friend being officially charged for using fakeidentification novelty driving licence.

With the 'ordering service' although it is less severe you would still be considered an accessory to a crime and could still be charged.

While I don't trust Snapchat in any way, shape or form - from what I've heard from actual LE on other cases (nothing to do with IDs/fraud), they've said Snapchat are pretty shit at supplying them with evidence when requested.

Protonmail is great if you use TOR all the time, but your messages are always also stored out of your hands on the other person's end so LE could get in that way.

Wickr has proven trustworthy in the past, but as with all services one must remain vigilant and sceptical at all times. They may be storing messages as their encryption isn't (entirely) open source.

The weak links could always be the people on the other end who could possibly be providing LE with evidence. Making a deal could be enough to prosecute you even if you don't provide the IDs (this is a worst case scenario). LE will always catch up to you and get you if they choose to.

[JohnsIDs]

Cheers for all the help guys! That's all really helpful stuff.

As you said, they got charge for actually using a fake ID, which as I understand is fraud, as they were pretending that they were the person on the card, which of course they were not.

Has anyone heard of anyone getting into any sort of trouble at all for actually selling them?

From what I have read about in all the law books etc, using them to buy alcohol or using them for any other use is obviously illegal, however, not using them doesn't seem to actually be illegal? Can someone comment on this? Sorry if I seem somewhat repetitive, thanks for all the help guys!

[Runin28]

Cheers for all the help guys! That's all really helpful stuff.

As you said, they got charge for actually using a fake ID, which as I understand is fraud, as they were pretending that they were the person on the card, which of course they were not.

Has anyone heard of anyone getting into any sort of trouble at all for actually selling them?

From what I have read about in all the law books etc, using them to buy alcohol or using them for any other use is obviously illegal, however, not using them doesn't seem to actually be illegal? Can someone comment on this? Sorry if I seem somewhat repetitive, thanks for all the help guys!

It's rare, but the risk is always present. It's pretty low down on the priority list for LE but some forces are stepping their game up.

There was a mod on the sub (can't remember who, sorry) who was arrested and I think may have even been remanded after his house was raided. In the end the prosecution dropped their case because he did a decent job of hiding evidence but I think he was just extremely lucky.

You seem to be missing the point, however, reselling is illegal and regardless of how the law is worded you've still got to convince a court that you're completely innocent. That probably won't end in your favour if you're shown to have clearly sold IDs in the past. You won't get away with saying you had absolutely no idea they were going to be used for buying alcohol because that's an obvious lie.

[bigboybagel]

I would personally stay away from reselling any type of fake identification because of the fact we are on high alert for terrorism therefore i know it sounds crazy but most operations selling more than 30 ids are probably already clocked by various government agencys, i can imagine MI5/6 investigate every person who accesses gods website solely because say a terrorist buys an id and uses it to buy materials or go places using a different name. It only takes selling to one dodgy customer to be classed as an associate

[bigboybagel]

And i know youll say they cant find you because of vpns or tor but GCHQ has taps on every broadband connection meaning they can see every single bit of traffic and i can almost guarantee every single person on this fourm is not capable of staying fully anonymous

[Runin28]

And i know youll say they cant find you because of vpns or tor but GCHQ has taps on every broadband connection meaning they can see every single bit of traffic and i can almost guarantee every single person on this fourm is not capable of staying fully anonymous

Encryption can't easily be undone, Tor will do a decent job. Even GCHQ can be worked around.

[ta84351]

think there was someone on here not too long ago who resold a few to mates/local area and one of his customers got caught and grassed on him. all he had to do was get all the ids back that he sold, so he got off pretty lightly.

[Cylow]

Cheers for all the help guys! That's all really helpful stuff.

As you said, they got charge for actually using a fake ID, which as I understand is fraud, as they were pretending that they were the person on the card, which of course they were not.

Has anyone heard of anyone getting into any sort of trouble at all for actually selling them?

From what I have read about in all the law books etc, using them to buy alcohol or using them for any other use is obviously illegal, however, not using them doesn't seem to actually be illegal? Can someone comment on this? Sorry if I seem somewhat repetitive, thanks for all the help guys!

Imagine you’re in a court room, could you honestly make out you’re innocent selling novelty fake IDs? They ain’t gonna buy that shit. Every person who’s been raided for producing fake IDs have always said they’re for novelty use. You might think you’re fine and shit thinking about all these loop holes but when reality hits it’s gonna be nasty.